When Titans Clash: Coates vs. McWhorter!

OK, so not really titans and not much clashing. I just wanted you guys to check out this interview. It's the kid and John McWhorter chatting about the Coz. Lemme know what you think.

Comments

[Alexander]

Is there a transcript somewhere? I can't roll with ram files these days.

[Kai]

Just checked the interview, yeah there needs to be a transcript. I enjoyed it, you said a bunch of things I agree with and surprisingly so did John McWorter for the most part. I didnt realize you wrote that Cosby article in the Atlantic Monthly, I've gotta check it again.

Yes the cops are killing black people who are criminals, and who are not criminals, and yes we are somewhat ashamed, embarrassed by the fact that a black man may have been killed doing something that was illegal; but you said this is the playing field we chose to play on, I don't know if poor black children choose the playing field they are largely obstructed from playing on.

Thats a minor point, you represented us well. From Harlem too, no less.

John McWorter says "I have a snotty voice, its my handicap thats why I prefer to write." Now that was funny. ROFL!!!!
He also said:
"Everybody knows that society isn't fair"
thats not true John, most white people do not acknowledge that and thats why i think the black left has such an averse reaction to the things he says. What he says, I am only now realizing, comes from a place different from white conservatives. By leaving out this institutional piece, he just sounds like a delusional white conservative. Like you said, there is no reason we can't acknowledge the truth of both sides. spciety isn't fair AND we have to take ownership of our community and our collective fate.

ONe thing you didn't say, but I guess it wasn't completely necessary was, when he was talking about how racism, systemic racism isn't the major problem, I agree, the effects of it are the problems we are dealing with. The drug/alcohol abuse, criminal culture, disjointed families are all largely the effects of racist discrimination in employment, racist targetting of alcohol ads and illicit drugs, and their impacts.

Dope discussion though, who know he wasn't quite the conservative POS I painted him as. It was funny when he said that. He is straight up lying about the Manhattan institute, though, they are super conservative look at their funding and look at the papers they produce. They helped Giuliani make the NYPD more racist during his tenure. Who coulda thought that was possible.

[Cobb]

TC, I think you nail something fairly interesting early on with regard to your wariness of Cosby and conservatives which is that it should not be an either-or situation with regard to institutional reform and personal responsibility. But what was left unsaid is that if there is any institution in need of reform when it comes to out of wedlock births, perhaps it is the black church. At least, that's never really been said much in public. Is the black church allowing or condoning single-parent families? I'll take that up separately, now that I'm pleased with that provocation.

A lot of the friction, much of which I think is trumped up, comes from a presumption of racial loyalty that of necessity must trump ideology. So long as McWhorter can show and prove that he loves black people in some special way, then he's OK. The same with Cosby's bona fides. That 'the black community' feels itself deserving of special attention is part of the problem with negotiating political priorities. For example, how does Fox News, once accused of being 'white conservative', prove itself of showing special love for black people. How does any institution? The Manhattan Institute, The Atlantic Monthly?, BET? Interestingly enough, the liberal and Left has I think adequately demonstrated that they get race wrong enough to be specially hurtful - and that's rather where we're left - blackfolks feel betrayed or ignored, and whichever hurts more colors judgment on ideological statements which are actually just common wisdom that applies to anybody regardless of race.

The answer is not racial unity, it is a bit less emotionalism about who loves whom. Politics is not about love. It never has been and it never will be.

I hear the retort coming back about it being about respect. Any *tone* that comes across as disrespectful of blackfolks will be interpreted as against black interests, whether or not that is the intent. So you have this entire industry, it seems, which is preoccupied with 'subtle' racism. Was the 'Call Me' ad against Harold Ford disrespectful and therefore dog-whistle politics signalling something to the REAL racists? This is where McWhorter is dead on. You can have those conversations about race relations until you are blue in the face and never make an inch of real progress.

This is something most every black Republican understands. You simply don't talk about race relations. It's unproductive and it's never going to get better - in fact, race relations are on individuals. It's up to you to get over your personal sensitivities so that you can actually deal with institutional reform.