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Why liberals don't listen to Shelby Steele

25 Jul 2008 07:36 pm

Or at least this one. Chris Bodenner nods approvingly toward Shelby Steele (though whacking him over his support of McCain) and wonders why Steele is so often dismissed by liberals. I can only speak for myself.
In Aspen, I watched Steele claim that white guilt was the reason we were losing the Iraq War. And then I watched him stand in front of a room full of white people and reduce African-Americans into cartoons so could fit into his ridiculous bargainer and challenger. Steele subscribes to the theory of Black Automatons in which black people don't exist as actual people, but as robots whose whole lives are ordered around the machinations of white people.

This is why it's laughable to see Steele attacking Jackson and Sharpton--they are branches of the same deterministic tree. There are no actual black people making individual determinations in the world of Steele or Jackson. Either it's racism or its culture. Either the white man is keeping us down or the niggers are fucking it up for everybody. Both Jackson and Steele still think that this is 1992 and the most important debates about race either center around some vague notion of "social justice" or the affirmative action policies at Harvard Law.

When I watched Steele talk, I didn't feel bad for black America, I felt bad for the white people who were there drinking it up. (In fairness, many were not.) It really saddens me to write that. I actually agree with Steele on one thing---the end of the Civil Rights Industrial Complex is great thing for black people everywhere. But Steele is tied to that complex, and his ideas are just as bereft. Like the men he derides as extortionists (which they are) Steel is running a hustle--Sharpton and Jackson traffic in white guilt. Steele traffics in white ignorance. And they keep all the profits. I've never seen "white guilt" or "white ignorance" do a damn thing for black folks.

Comments (15)

This sh*t here must stop. Stop misrepresenting Jesse...

Or I will be forced to defend him against dishonest, media driven attacks (where else are you getting this stuff from?) the same way I've defended Obama all campaign long...

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/1891062474?r=7921082474#7921082474

Posted by Nquest | July 25, 2008 8:05 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to see things dealt with in an honest, accurate manner. Jesse is hardly high in my esteem. And, though I've said the same thing about Steele and Jesse being cut from the same tree, if we're honest, putting him in the same sentence as Steele really does disrespect what Jesse has at least tried to do and the actual contributions he's made.

I'd have no problem with Jesse being all against racism only (though he's not and never been) if I thought he went far enough. I'd have no problem with Steele being all personal responsibility, if I thought the mf was serious and not just putting on a show (which Jesse arguably does at times).

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with people having those focuses. People complain about the NAACP and old guard civil rights leaders, etc. but they built the organizations and movements to do what they saw fit/see fit to be done. People in our generation have no excuse.

They saw something that was needed and they filled the void or at least made an attempt.

Beyond that... I absolutely agree with you about white guilt not doing a damn thing for anybody but sorry and cynical Whites (and the Blacks they pay) who use it to paint themselves as victims (you know, since that's a bad word).

Posted by Nquest | July 25, 2008 8:17 PM

I'm not sure what the beef is. I've been pretty clear about Jesse's contribution--most relevant to this year, the fact that there would be no Obama without Jesse. But the fact that you've built organizations and made significant contributions doesn't exempt you from critique.

Posted by Ta-Nehisi Coates | July 25, 2008 8:53 PM

Ta-Nehisi, what you posted about Jackson here is not a critique. A "beef" would be a better description. I was clear, critique is a must but it must be honest and accurate. Yours was not.

This is not a critique:
"Both Jackson and Steele still think that this is 1992..."

This is not honest or accurate:
"...there are no actual black people making individual determinations in the world of Steele or Jackson. Either it's racism or its culture. Either the white is keeping us down or the niggers are fucking it up for everybody."

You inaccurately placed Jesse as the "it's racism" guy vs. Steele's it's culture thing which is complicated by what I linked to. Seems like you're allowing what the media has made of Jesse to cloud your mind and your real "beef" has more to do with that than what Jesse is doing and saying now... You know, things that complicate this caricature -- which is not the same thing as a critique -- that you keep trying to draw of Jesse.

So the issue is not about exemption from critique. It's about the inaccuracy of your caricature-as-critique.

Posted by Nquest | July 25, 2008 9:19 PM

"...I've been pretty clear about Jesse's contribution."

But you haven't steered clear of the typical nonsense of trying to fit Jesse into a convenient caricature that actual facts (some in the link) make it difficult for you to do.

Have your beef against Jesse and the Civil Rights Industrial Complex. Critique the hell out of it but there is no reason or excuse for not being accurate.

When Jesse has a long history (whether media covers it or not) of addressing "cultural" issues via PUSH Excel, etc., then, really, it's your beef, what it's all about that has to be questioned.

Jesse's actual "contribution" and work simply doesn't fit the either or stuff. There are readily identifiable things he's done/said that doesn't fit "the white is keeping us down" caricature/characterization.

And, really, if Jesse and Al are "extortionists"... where the hell are Reparations? Surely you could use some of the same rhetoric as Black conservatives like Steele and explain how Jesse/Al chased every camera and ambulance the second Reparations gained currency in the mainstream press.

I mean, say what you will about whatever (breadbasket) "shakedowns" -- what did King do? -- Jesse/Al supposedly do but this line of discourse, calling Jesse and Al extortionists, supports Steele's idea of White victimhood, powerlessness and White guilt.

How the hell can Jesse and Al "extort" something (White) people when the same news media that made them into the people you love to hate is largely MIA when Jesse strikes on "personal responsibility" themes and has done so for decades?

This stuff doesn't even make sense.

Posted by Nquest | July 25, 2008 9:44 PM

Critique--a criticism or critical comment on some problem, subject.

That's the second definition in my dictionary. What I wrote, quite literally, is critique.

As for your point about accuracy and honesty, show me a fact that I've made up. What you're really doing is differing with my interpretation of said facts--which is fine. I appreciate your point about Jesse and culture. But that doesn't make what I said "dishonest" (meaning I'm trying to deceive the reader) or "inaccurate" (meaning that I've said something that is factual untrue)It is true that Jesse has talked about "culture," just as it's true that Steele has talked about the power of racism--I saw him do it live. But that doesn't mean that that's what either one of them has emphasized. This isn't a matter of accuracy--the critique is my interpretation based on the facts. Feel free to disagree, but claiming that I'm being dishonest is cheap.

Posted by Ta-Nehisi Coates | July 25, 2008 10:02 PM

"But that doesn't mean that that's what either one of them has emphasized."

I don't see that connecting to this:
"Either the white is keeping us down or the niggers are fucking it up for everybody."

The facts I stipulated to shows how Jesse has emphasized "culture" on the regular whether it's televised or not. That makes your characterization, complete with all the "extortion" rhetoric which is rather dated rhetoric, inaccurate. It makes your statement a caricature and not a critique.

So what we have here is your curious blindness to facts that don't fit your media driven perception. We've "differed" over that before and your misdirected angst towards Jesse that has a lot to do with the media and how they choose/use him instead of what he actually does -- i.e. not solely what he does.

So all this worn out Black conservative style, anti-Jesse rhetoric is what is the cheapest form of any so-called "critique." But, go ahead... link me or hit me up to Shelby Steele years worth of "talk" and ACTIONS regarding the "power of racism" (wtf??) that's comparable to Jesse's decades long commitment to and emphasis on "culture".

There is simply no comparison and it is not honest to say Jesse hasn't emphasized "culture", etc. and its not a matter of opinion or interpretation. Jesse has been too consistent on the "cultural" front to say he hasn't emphasized it. Maybe not as much as you like but facts aren't about whether you like them or not.

So, if anything, the problem lies in your interpretation. The facts are simple: PUSH Excel is but one example, and a 30 year + one at that, of Jesse EMPHASIZING things "cultural" or specific to "black people individual determinations" or some such. Your so-called critique is absent those persistent, consistent and very knowable (you don't have to "see him do it live") facts and is, hence, not honest.

Posted by Nquest | July 25, 2008 10:37 PM

OK, so this is what I'm left with--my post is dishonest, inaccurate and not a critique. If we can't even come to terms with basic dictionary definitions than our chances at dialogue are minimal. More tot he point, if you really think I'm being dishonest--as opposed to just disagreeing with you--our shot at dialogue is basically nil. And, in that case, there really isn't much else to say.

Posted by Ta-Nehisi Coates | July 25, 2008 10:50 PM

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/honest

HONEST (4a): Characterized by truth; not false: e.g. 'honest reporting'

It is not honest nor accurate to say Jesse doesn't emphasize the 'cultural.' PERIOD. And, of course, such a fact-based critique leaves little for you to say.

http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=Webster%27s&word=inaccurate&use1913=on&use1828=on

INACCURATE: Not accurate; not according to truth; inexact; incorrect; erroneous.

Your notion that Jesse doesn't 'emphasize' the cultural is inexact and is simply not correct. The facts are in opposition to your interpretation.

http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?action=search&word=caricature&resource=Webster%27s&quicksearch=on

CARICATURE: An exaggeration, or distortion by exaggeration, of parts or characteristics...

Question: How is extortion defined?

Posted by Nquest | July 25, 2008 11:27 PM

sorry to interrupt here, but i just felt compelled to say that claude steele, shelby's brother, is totally badass.

Posted by JedReport | July 26, 2008 3:15 AM

Jed, I always like to ask people who agree with Shelby's theories what they think about Claude's stereotype threat idea.

Posted by Nquest | July 26, 2008 4:47 AM

Let me chime in with a hearty second to Jed's sentiment - Claude Steele is a totally brilliant researcher, theorist and from all accounts, all-around righteous dude.

Posted by jkd | July 26, 2008 1:37 PM

I have never heard of "Civil Rights Industrial Complex". What on earth is that?

Posted by Sepia Noir Jenkins | July 26, 2008 2:56 PM

Unlike Shelby, Jackson & Sharpton have had some quantifiable impact on black lives, they have taken courageous stands, they have fought on the correct sides of issues. I dont know what Shelby owes his notoriety to other than voicing things White conservatives have wet dreams about.

Posted by Kai | July 28, 2008 12:33 AM

I found this quote from Shelby Steele:

"Racism in the United States today is not significant at all. It is no longer a barrier to advancement of blacks and other minorities in American life at all. It is simply not there. Many, many other things are barriers, but racism is no longer one of them. We have, I think, gone farther than any other human society in containing racism as a source of oppression."

Posted by Nquest | August 5, 2008 11:33 PM